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- Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
- Path: netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!scala!news
- From: dave.haynie@scala.com (Dave Haynie)
- Subject: Re: Amiga vs. PC
- Sender: news@scala.scala.com (Usenet administrator)
- Message-ID: <1996Mar11.205510.7967@scala.scala.com>
- Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:55:10 GMT
- Reply-To: dave.haynie@scala.com (Dave Haynie)
- References: <rdingem.4k6k@grafix.xs4all.nl>
- Nntp-Posting-Host: gator
- Organization: Scala Computer Television, US Research Center
-
- In <rdingem.4k6k@grafix.xs4all.nl>, rdingem@grafix.xs4all.nl (Ruud Dingemans) writes:
- >In a message of 06 Mar 96 Dave Haynie wrote to All:
-
- > DH> Truth is, in most applications you don't need a 64-bit processor (though
- > DH> I'm sure some bozo said that about 32 and 16 bit processors years ago).
- > DH> The larger word size doesn't buy you any extra speed doing most personal
-
- >Eh, Dave, I'm afraid I don't quite get this. I can see the
- >non-usefulness concerning the 4+ GB address space, but if it makes
- >a difference shoveling 32 bits of data in and outta memory at a
- >time (instead of 16), why shouldn't 64 bit instead of 32 make a
- >real difference?
-
- It does. But you don't need a 64-bit CPU to shovel 64-bit quantities
- in and out of memory. The fully 32-bit PowerPC chips (PPC602, PPC603,
- and PPC604) do this just fine, by supporting a 64-bit data bus. So
- does the Pentium. As I explained in the article to which you're
- replying, the data bus size has nothing to with "intrinsic bit size"
- of a CPU. To be a 64-bit CPU, you have 64-bit registers.
-
- > DH> computer things, since 64-bit integer values, and addressing beyond
- > DH> 4GBs, aren't generally of much use.
-
- >So.. Why not? You mean not useful right now, or not useful period?
-
- For most of the things you do today on a computer, not useful
- period. But there's a matter of the practical versus the necessary,
- too.
-
- It all changes over time, just because it's easy for it to change. For
- example, there was a time when a 4GB address space seemed plenty for
- disk access. Now you can get 4GB disk drives for under $1000, so it
- wouldn't be reasonable to release a new computer OS that is limited to
- 4GB disk access. Yet this can be handled with the need for 64-bit
- processors, it's just less efficient.
-
- Right now, it's hard to image when 4GB of addressable memory will be
- commonplace. So the need for 64-bit processors is limited to special
- purpose applications that can really use the extra addressing. There
- are many, many things you can name that need greater-than-16-bit
- integer resolution: audio (though 16-bit's pretty good if you're not
- doing any manipulation), graphics (though 16-bits/pixel isn't bad),
- many simple tallies of things. The class of things that deal in
- integers with more than 32 bits are fairly limited. So again, they can
- be done, just less efficiently, on a 32-bit system.
-
- What you give up going to a 64-bit system is simplicity. A 64-bit
- system needs twice the number of bits in each register, wider data
- paths to connect registers, wider ALUs to operate on them, etc. Unless
- you actually have something to do with this extra complexity, it's a
- waste of transistors. A waste that translates into more expensive
- systems, slower systems, or a combination of the two.
-
- So I'm still claiming 64-bit isn't necessary, today, in a PC. My guess
- is that it'll be driven by the possible rather than the practical. In
- a generation or two, perhaps the extra size of things won't be much of
- an issue, maybe the average PC will have some use for beyond 32-bit
- addressing, etc. But we're not there yet -- 64-bit processors are more
- expensive, or slower, or both than state-of-the-art 32-bit CPUs. And
- while 64-bit CPUs are making some real improvements in things like
- large database access (DEC's getting big here), they aren't worth the
- money for personal computers just yet.
-
- Dave Haynie | ex-Commodore Engineering | for DiskSalv 3 &
- Sr. Systems Engineer | Hardwired Media Company | "The Deathbed Vigil"
- Scala Inc., US R&D | Ki No Kawa Aikido | info@iam.com
-
- "Feeling ... Pretty ... Psyched" -R.E.M.
-
-